Spiritual warfare: what makes you more vulnerable to malevolent forces - Bernhard Guenther
Episode 556, released 9th July 2026.
Lian and psycho-spiritual researcher Bernhard Guenther explore spiritual warfare, what unseen forces actually are, how they operate through human consciousness, why most people have no map for recognising them, and what it takes to begin developing one.
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Or if you prefer to read: Scroll right down for the transcript
Bernhard Guenther is a psycho-spiritual researcher, teacher, and guide whose work explores the deeper architecture of reality and the evolutionary challenges humanity faces during this Time of Transition.
Drawing on over two decades of study, practice, and inner work, he integrates esoteric wisdom, depth psychology, trauma healing, shadow integration, and a clear understanding of the spiritual and hyperdimensional forces that influence human consciousness.
He is the founder of Piercing the Veil of Reality and co-host of The Cosmic Matrix podcast with his wife, Laura Matsue Guenther. Through online courses, mentoring, articles, podcasts, and retreats, he helps sincere seekers cultivate discernment, embody their true nature, and align with their deeper purpose in a time of profound change.
In this episode, Lian and Bernhard explore spiritual warfare, what Bernhard calls the hyperdimensional matrix, the unseen forces and beings that influence human thought, desire, and perception, often without our awareness or consent. Drawing on Rudolf Steiner (Austrian esotericist and founder of Anthroposophy, a tradition of spiritual science), Sri Aurobindo (Indian sage and philosopher of Integral Yoga), and over two decades of direct experience, Bernhard maps the planes of creation through which these forces operate, how they target seekers specifically, and why expanding consciousness brings more contact with them rather than less.
The conversation moves into how spiritual warfare most commonly operates, not through dramatic possession but through subtle appeal to ego, blind spots, and the desire to feel special or already awake, how these forces can masquerade as divine guidance, and why the capacity to differentiate between what is yours and what isn't is more important than discernment alone.
Listen if you've ever gone down a rabbit hole of conspiracy or spiritual content and come out feeling more paranoid and less yourself, or if you keep getting derailed by thoughts and patterns you can't quite claim as your own.
We’d love to know what YOU think about this week’s show. Let’s carry on the conversation… please leave a comment below.
What you’ll learn from this episode:
Why these forces target seekers more than people who aren't doing any inner work, and what that contact tends to look like
How to tell the difference between a wounded inner part that needs integrating and something that has genuinely come in from outside
What Bernhard means by inner differentiation, and why it goes further than discernment alone
Resources and stuff that we spoke about:
Join UNIO, The Community for Wild Sovereign Souls: This is for the old souls in this new world… Discover your kin & unite with your soul’s calling to truly live your myth.
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Thank you!
Lian & Jonathan
Episode Transcript:
Please note: We are a small team and not able to check through the transcript our software provides. So you may find some words are out of place and a few sentences don’t make complete sense. If you do see something utterly ridiculous we’d love you to let us know so we can correct it. Please email any howlers with the time stamp to team@bemythical.com.
Lian (00:00)
Could the thoughts and impulses pulling you off course be coming from somewhere other than yourself? And could your spiritual growth be making you more visible to forces that you perhaps you have no map for?
This week I'm joined by psycho-spiritual researcher Bernhard Gunther to explore spiritual warfare, what unseen forces are, how they operate through human consciousness, why most people have no map for recognising them, and what it takes to begin developing one. Bernhard is the founder of Piercing the Veil of Reality and co-host of the Cosmic Matrix podcast.
Where he has spent over two decades mapping the intersection of depth psychology, esoteric wisdom, and the forces that influence human consciousness.
We explore what Bernhard calls the hyperdimensional matrix, the unseen forces and beings that influence human thought, desire, and perception, often without our awareness or consent. Drawing on Rudolf Steiner and Sri Aurobindo, a Indian sage and philosopher of integral yoga, and over two decades of direct experience, Bernhard maps the planes of creation through which these forces operate.
How they target seekers specifically and why expanding consciousness can bring more contact with them rather than less.
So listen if you've ever gone down a rabbit hole of conspiracy or spiritual content and come out feeling more paranoid and less yourself, or if you keep getting derailed by thoughts and patterns that you're not sure are your own. If you're new here, this is a show about a deeper, truer life, the one your soul is calling you towards.
And if you've been here before, you already know that. And that calling is exactly why UNIO exists. UNIO is the living community of the Wild Sovereign Soul Path, where Jonathan and I meet with members twice each month in our guidance circle to sit with whatever is alive in your life. That could be your relationships, your health, your business, your soul path, the places you feel stuck or called or both. We bring everything we are and know to meet you exactly where you are.
We've also made Unio tiered so that money is never what keeps someone from walking this path. You can find out more and join us at wildsovereignsoul.com/unio And now back to this week's episode, let's dive in.
Lian (02:32)
Bernhard. Welcome to the show.
Bernhard Guenther (02:34)
Thank you so much for having me, Lian Excellent.
Lian (02:37)
Oh, I am very much looking forward to this conversation. It's not the most delightful, lighthearted conversation, but it feels an important one. And as we were just saying, a very timely one. So I'm very much looking forward to the conversation. I would love to begin way back at very beginning of your story, your origin story, as it were. I've noticed in the work that we do, which is
I guess ultimately tracing someone's soul story and particularly from the lens often of their sacred wound, that we can see the imprint of where they've ended up the work they do now, way back in childhood. It's kind of got its fingerprints way back then. And so I would love to start there if you're okay with that. What was that for you?
Bernhard Guenther (03:30)
Yeah, thank you so much. wanna condense in a nutshell because we could also start lifetimes ago because it's all the comic imprint that you know, so we came Exactly Wow five thousand years ago. No, no, I just a nutshell. I was born in the US actually in Los Angeles, but both my parents, my dad is German, my mom is Polish, they both escaped
Lian (03:36)
Well, feel free. Actually, I often guess do that.
Bernhard Guenther (03:58)
My mom escaped from communist Poland. My dad escaped from Eastern communist Germany, right? And then he fulfilled his, you know, so they definitely were refugees back in the 60s. And then my dad they moved to the US, my dad fulfilled his dream to study at UCLA, and I was born there. But when I was one or two years old, they moved back to Germany and I grew up in Munich, Germany. So I spent all my time
Lian (04:04)
Mmm.
Bernhard Guenther (04:26)
younger years, childhood years in Munich. And growing up, you know, I was always a very sensitive child, loved nature, being outside, more of a loner, couldn't fit in, almost like very archetypal, that kind of story, right? was very sensitive to music, went through school, you know, kinda like a normal child, but didn't really enjoy it. And big change happened, you know, even in my childhood when I was out in the fields thinking about there must be more to life, always looking at the stars. There's something driving me towards questioning, right? So there was more an open curiosity for sure. I think it really hit me once I graduated high school in in Munich and went to the University of Munich, studied business at the age of 18 or 19, like everybody else, because I didn't know what else to do. I just was following the program. But I felt like in a university, like I felt at high school. This is no fun. What am I doing here?
Lian (05:03)
Hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (05:23)
And then what I now look back almost like a divine intervention, I met my friend back then who introduced me to play the drums. So I started playing drums at the age of 19. I remember first sitting down at his drum set in his basement. And that's and I had my I would say my first spiritual transcendental experience because I really liked playing the drums, playing music. I had an affinity for it. Always music really touched me deeply. And then being able to hold the rhythm.
Lian (05:24)
Mmm.
Bernhard Guenther (05:50)
It opened something up. I was like in the moment, time stopped. Like, and then at that moment I had an experience I've never had before. I realised this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. Boom. Be a drummer, play music. Exactly. Right. So I thought. Yeah, the if the experience through the drumming, like there's something music like I connected to on on something higher, right? Or the express creatively expressing myself. And I didn't even think about doing it be when I was younger and you know.
Lian (06:01)
This, this experience, that not so much the drumming, but the experience because of the drumming. Yeah.
Mmm.
Bernhard Guenther (06:19)
Growing up in an apartment building doesn't suit to have a drum set there anyway. But I was became almost obsessed by very dedicated. I dropped out of the h university, started working, and then a year or two years later moved to Los Angeles at the age of twenty two to study drums and percussion with my friend. and then played at bands, playing eight hours a day. Just this is what I want to do. And I really loved it, enjoyed it. but at the same time, you know, I was already back then what I call do.
Lian (06:35)
Wow.
Bernhard Guenther (06:48)
Do shamanic drumming. It helped me to express really difficult emotions, kind of like emotional cleansing, just expressing myself. Was more really definitely driven to more darker, heavy music, complex music, but it helped me to express myself, right? But at the same time as I was playing, a lot of stuff came up I had to confront within myself, right? I still was dealing with depression, despair, like negative emotions. And I'm in the band was not going too well. I was kind of disillusioned with the whole music business scene in Los Angeles, like from Europe, right? So it's a whole different attitude. And so while I, you know, was touring around and whatnot and had my day job, but I remember growing up one day, one day really in despair, crying. I was not happy. I was really dealing with depression and you know despair, so to speak. And this voice came into my head, some inner guidance, some voice telling me, you need to figure yourself out. You need to learn who you are or you will kill yourself. Like it was became a bit suicidal. And remember that day I went to one of the bookstores in in Los Angeles and found saw this book on the table by this guy called Krishna Murti. Never heard of him. Right. And the book was called Freedom from the Known.
And that really opened me up. I started reading it, and there was one line that struck with me that said, It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. I was like, Whoa. And that's what I realised, what I was trying to do, what people try to do, adjusting to a world that's out of tune with nature, with spirit, with God, with the divine. And I realised that a big reason for my so-called depression, despair, even suicide tendencies was not because something was wrong with me, because it was a cry for my soul, for some deeper alignment, some change. So that initiated my path towards more self-inquiry, like getting into spirituality, philosophy. I got also through my roommate, you know, there are people then appear once you answer the call that are like become mentors or teachers without them like being official teachers, right? So to speak, that puts you on your path. and one of my roommates introduced me back in the mid mid nineties to yoga and and and body work and all
Lian (08:49)
Mmm.
Bernhard Guenther (09:03)
His healing arts, which was very foreign to me, new, very exotic. So I learned that. I found a healing gift. I had a gift for body work, massage, energy work. People all of a sudden came to me. He showed me some basic techniques. And then I pursued that, right? So my whole life shifted. I had my own private practice for that followed 20 years, just doing that work, working on people. At the same time was deeply studying, got into spirituality, Eastern spirituality, esoteric Christianity, Sufism. Carl Jung's work had a big impact on me in the nineties, right? Really going deep, sh shadow work, all of this, inner child work. But I also realised the first ten years or so, I thought I was working on my shadow and whatnot, was writing all about my inner child wounds and all this, but I had just only intellectualised the process. Maybe that many of us can relate to that when we study certain things, we think we have healed something just because we have an intellectual understanding, but it's just in the head.
Lian (09:54)
Hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (10:02)
So I completely missed the most somatic emotional process and then had another initiation, so to speak, with the help of psilocybin mushrooms. That definitely was an initiation with more psychedelics medicine plans. So I walked that path a little bit, spent time in Peru with ayahuasca, Wachuma, San Pedro, and all of that. So that definitely opened something up, helped me to, you know, integrate more. But also that opened me up to a whole nother world. So that's when I came more face to face with what I call the hyperdimensional reality, spiritual reality, spiritual beings. And because I realised on these journeys, then I was really becoming a psychonaut like Terence McKenna, you know, really diving deep by myself, exploring these realms. And I came across spirit beings and entities that were clearly not part of my psyche. There was something else. They exist in their own world, right? And I realised they have an own influence on me, right? On us, both malevolent and benevolent. So that kind of was the first
Direct experience of spiritual forces affecting us, which laid the foundation later for my work, what I'm doing now as well. but then I also got more into like questioning the world, like the whole conspiracy realm and everything. Absolutely when 9-11 happened back in 2001, got introduced to David Icke's work and all of that. So questioning all this. But for me, early on, the work was twofold. The inner work was very important to come in deep alignment, hear myself. And yes, questioning the world, right?
So I could also then never too relate too much to the whole conspiracy world because while I agree we need to question what's happening, a lot of people then just project everything externally on the outside world. They're shadow, they don't do any inner work and easily evict them blame and just complain and all of this doesn't help to change the world, right? So for me it was both. Like, yeah, it's questionable, but also who am I? I need to come into an inner alignment. So
Lian (11:38)
Mmm.
Bernhard Guenther (11:52)
work on myself, both on a psychological and spiritual level. I'm big into what I call psycho-spiritual work. Because if you do psychological work alone, you tend to just end up in childhood with blaming your parents or something like that, right? if you just do so so-called spiritual work, you can easily fall into spiritual bypassing, right? Not really doing the inner work, overestimating yourself, taking on a spiritual identity, get lost in a new age and all of this, right? So it was more integral, the whole work. And
Lian (12:05)
Thank
Bernhard Guenther (12:21)
It was, you know, it's not easy. I also realised through my own experience that this inner work process or awakening process is not this linear road up what we would like to have, like the awakening out to more love and light and embodiment. It's more and widening on all levels. And I really got deep into also Shri Yorubindu's integral yoga, and he talked about this divine law of ascent and descent that really helped me put things into context, meaning The awakening process is a widening on all levels, meaning you can only rise as high, as low as you're willing to go into the depth of your shadow and purifying and cleanse and and clear your vessel for the divine force to anchor yourself or bring forth the true self. So it's a widening. Right? That's why Carl Jung's famous quote says the tree that reaches to heaven must have its roots in hell. Or Sri Bundu said, No one can reach heaven who has not gone through hell. Right. So allegorically speaking, metaphorically.
Lian (13:07)
Hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (13:16)
And that's true. That's what I realised, you know. And that's when I came face to face that you know, this awakening process, we all have this ideal, I want to awaken, do the inner work, it's beautiful. But it is a battle. So that ties into the whole topic. It is spiritual warfare on some level to really engage in this work. Because you know, and I think nowadays I've When I use this word spiritual warfare battle, some people get offended by it. we shouldn't use this language, it's too negative. You make it hard on yourself, right? Almost a bit like a new age cop-out. But if you study as tagged edition, it's especially the Bhagavad Gita, it's all about the battle, about facing the battle. It is a war, you know, and I realise this war or the matrix is working through us because you're dealing with your own inner stuff, inner child parts, ego resistance, right? It's the battle between soul and ego in within your own psyche, right?
You see the contradictory voices and personalities within yourself, you become more aware of that. And it's a battle outside as well, because there are other forces trying to interfere with that. It's been known to all esoteric traditions that there are other forces, beings that basically target the seeker to keep you asleep. but I also realised these were necessary tests to and initiations to go through. So that's kind of like laid the basis of my work in a nutshell where I am now.
And also from a bigger picture perspective, I think we're in a very pivotal, very crucial, very important time. What some esoteric traditions have called the time of transition or the shift of the age is the potential for a bigger awakening and new cycle which we are approaching. That's why everything is intensifying. That's why I think this work is so important right now.
Lian (14:57)
Gosh, I'm thinking now I would have liked the Pulse Live version, but maybe another time.
Bernhard Guenther (15:05)
Yeah, because we come already with a certain a setup, right? I'm sure you're aware, you know what I mean? And then we it just get initiated as is it's just a continuation, right, so to speak. Because a lot of this stuff I feel is more like I feel I'm more remembering something from what I've already knew rather than learning something new, if that makes sense.
Lian (15:11)
Yes, yes.
Hmm. Exactly. But yeah.
Mm, that
just picking up the thread for sure. Tell me if you feel this is too much of a tangent, because I do very much want to stay with the topic that we've begun exploring. But I was pondering how there was something interesting in your heritage in Germany, and of course the wounds you could say of that land over the last century. And then that move to America or move back to America and how one might say, I suspect you'd agree, but please feel free to say if not, much of these kind of let's say forces that you refer to are perhaps kind of most prevalent in America. There is, it feels to me, and again, this is with some degree of perspective being here in England of English heritage, it feels like what I'm aware of happening here feels like it's intensified in America in all kinds of ways and far more obviously and more materially. And so I wondered, it's not a particularly neat question, but I wonder what you've seen, if anything, around the land of both places that have been so important to your journey, that kind of German wound and the kind of
sort of battlefield that America appears to be, again, from my lens. Is there anything that you've seen about that that might illuminate what we're talking about here?
Bernhard Guenther (16:57)
Yeah.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I would think it's very you it's it's we need to watch out not to overgeneralize because it's very specific even within the land with where you live, for example. Now I'm here in Sedona, Arizona. It's perfect energetically, right? I'm in the high desert. When I used to live in LA, it's a whole different story, right? So way more bab b Babylonian, like dark energy, Hollywood and all that, but a lot of potential here.
Lian (17:11)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (17:27)
You know what I sense energetically here, I like the US because it's more progressive, not progressive in the leftist sense, but it's more put future oriented. They're not weighed back by the past, right? So there's more, there's more that potential. I sense that energetically. Whenever I come back to Europe, especially Germany, I feel the weight of the past and how people are just stuck in the past, in tradition.
Lian (17:40)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (17:56)
You know, there's a heavy energy I sense more and more. And that could be also what of the history, what's happening over there, right? And definitely as a German, I had to work through a lot of collective grief and unconscious guilt I didn't even know I had. But that's part you know what I mean? So because I'm also not I don't care about much of politics. I'm not identified left or right. I don't even care much about nations and flags. You know, these are just identities, right? But I realised I also
Lian (17:58)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Mmm.
Bernhard Guenther (18:26)
when I took this philosophical approach of like I don't need to defend any nation, I'm just a human being. I was bypassing, spiritually bypassing in a sense, a psychological process which I had to dive into and face my own unconscious guilt, you know, or what a trauma I've taken on through my dad's side, my mother's side, right? I can see this within myself on the lineage, ancestrally, right? Absolutely. So that's part that was a big part of my inner work to clear that more and more.
Lian (18:46)
Yeah.
Yes.
Bernhard Guenther (18:55)
and I can sense that. And that helped actually to the more I was healing myself within and improved the relations for my parents and so because it's all interconnected, right? But I would say, you know, I mean, truth to be told, when I go now back to Europe, it's very different than when I grew up there in the eight seventies, eighties, early nineties. It's where, you know what I mean, you guys almost losing your national identity with this mass immigration, for example, what's happening there.
Lian (19:05)
Mm.
Yeah.
Bernhard Guenther (19:24)
And I'm not, you know, I think some of that on purpose, you can get into a conspiracy and all of this, but it's also something bigger happening, right? So it's in terms of the evolution of consciousness, right? So I think in with everything there are certain lessons. So I would not say I get away from it's better to live here or there. I seen a lot of people who just especially through COVID, they escape to Costa Rica or down to Mexico or some the Caribbeans, whatnot.
But you know, after a few years, they also realise that, you know, wherever you are, you are with yourself. And the forces I'm talking about, they exist beyond time and space. So it doesn't matter where you're on a physical level. You can be, I've been in Peru in the Sacred Valley. It's these sacred spaces are sketchy to begin with in many different ways. I've been all over the place and world myself. So when you're sincere on the path, you will get the attention of these forces.
Lian (20:05)
Hmm.
you
Bernhard Guenther (20:22)
Right. Because you're still and wherever you are, you're still with yourself. You still have to deal with your own stuff. Right. So yes, there can be a collective, you know what I mean? Definitely here in the US, you see more like the war is more it's more overt, you know what I mean. Europe maybe it's more covert and whatnot. But it's really on an individual level depends, you know, where you are in your inner journey. And or better or worse, right? And I feel also everybody's
Lian (20:22)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Bernhard Guenther (20:50)
meant to be where they're meant to be, based on their soul trajectory. Because the ego wants one way. You know, if it would be up for my ego, I would just rather like be somewhere by myself, live in the Caribbeans, maybe Costa Rica, just do my body work and that's it, right? Just live large. You know, but no, I need to be here. Exactly. So but no, but I feel certain especially in this time that we need to be there where we're needed, right? Where we can do our work
Lian (21:06)
So it's very inconvenient, isn't it?
Bernhard Guenther (21:19)
you know, even more in places that I'm you know, wherever they are. So it's like that that's more the call of the soul to engage, to be, you know, very much I'm big student of the Bhagavad Gita, like Arjuna in the battle, like Krishna. No, you have to engage in the battle. Non-action is not an option. Embrace it, right? not from a knee-jerk reaction and outwardly, but it's more an inner inner alignment. And so
Lian (21:23)
Yes.
and
Bernhard Guenther (21:45)
that's why I'm saying with the idea of what's the best spot, place, it's really your your comic setup. What is your dharma? Where do you need to be? What also in terms of learning lessons that's specific to each soul. That's why even I could easily talk shit about like big cities, Los Angeles. Like I don't, you know, I think it's I don't like it there. But I know some friends that they need to be there based on their soul lesson, what they have to learn, right? And it's going well for them. So we need
Lian (22:07)
Hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (22:13)
to be careful with this overgeneralisation. That's what I'm trying to get at.
Lian (22:15)
Yeah, I thank you, that really makes sense. You earlier touched upon something that I think is really, really kind of succinctly put when you're talking about the way that when people start to question the way things are and listen to say, for example, conspiracy theories and then like, actually, maybe, you know, there is something here. And I kind of previously just thought it was rubbish and all of that. And as you say, without
Bernhard Guenther (22:23)
Yeah.
Lian (22:50)
that devotion to the inner work, we can just project all of our stuff out onto it. And so I think that's a really important thing to recognise. And what I'm hearing in what you've said and certainly in the work we do, yes, there is that work to do within our own self, within, as you say, the, whether that be ancestral, whether it be the kind of wounds that we've chosen to come in and work through it as a soul path in this lifetime.
And as you described, there are in quote marks, other forces. So it feels as though in this conversation, the place for us to focus is these other forces rather than kind of aspects of self.
Bernhard Guenther (23:33)
By the way, are you
Lian (23:34)
But I think with the caveat that you were suggesting, it's like this is an invitation to only focus on those kind of, let's say, external forces and ignore what's going on within ourselves. I think that's like an important thing to say to almost like now, okay, with that being the foundation, now let's look there. So would you perhaps through your own… your own lens, language, cosmology, perhaps name when you're talking about these kind of other forces, external forces, what is that for you?
Bernhard Guenther (24:13)
Yeah. So that's a good question. So when we do, like you said, inner work, like you said, you focus on a lot our inner parts, you understand, you have a certain map of your inner psyche, so to speak, right? When you do inner work, even on a basic psychological level, you have maybe some awareness when an inner child part gets activated, when a shadow gets triggered, the subpersonality, trauma part, all of this. I consider this quote unquote basic psych psychological inner work to differentiate. We need to be able to differentiate what is what.
Lian (24:26)
Mm-hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (24:43)
Right. and then what is the true self? You can even go deaf psychology if Karl Jung has a map of you know, with the archetypes, the complexes, the personal shadow, the collective shadow, right? So what do I need to differentiate even from a shamanic perspective, soul fragmentation to bring it back, integrate all of this. So they all talk about the same. So what's interesting though, what I noticed when people then engage in spiritual work, by spiritual meaning work I mean prayer, meditation, you know, kind of aspiring to a higher force, maybe even work for spirit guides and calling in spirit beings, whatever it may be, right? or even with psychedelics medicine plants, you enter other realms, but we have no understanding, we have no quote unquote map of what we're dealing with. And I've seen a lot of people
Lian (25:13)
Hmm.
Hmm. Yes, unless we've gone, I've studied various forms of shamanism, for example, like Mongolian shamanism, there is a whole cosmology and map, but mostly,
Bernhard Guenther (25:36)
Exactly. So they're saying so there's certain
Lian (25:37)
we don't.
Bernhard Guenther (25:38)
Exactly. You know, absolutely. And you don't want to like, in my experience, become too dogmatic because it's just a map, right? So they all these different traditions talk about the same more or less. You know, I'm big into a little steiner's work, Sriobinus Integral Yoga, they definitely have their own cosmologies, they kind of overlap, talk about the same things.
Lian (25:44)
Yeah.
Bernhard Guenther (25:55)
But if you really study, go back in the esoteric tradition, even esoteric or cult traditions, they understood that differentiation, so to speak, is the name of the game. So inner differentiation. And I separate discernment from differentiation. Discernment is more an intellectual process, right? Of like this is true, this is not true, right? But this inner differentiation requires of what part is the is what doing what is part of my psyche, what I need to integrate, and what is not part of myself, we need to reject.
Lian (26:03)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (26:24)
And that's really the subtlety of the work. And this inner differentiation is more a psychic somatic process that becomes better as you go deep into the work. But that's why I'm saying for psycho-spiritual work, when you do the psychological work, the inner mapping of psychology and understanding spiritual work, understanding that and really sensing on high levels, there are certain forces that are affecting you, right? There are certain beings, forces both from the higher lower realms.
That can also produce certain thoughts that can initiate certain feelings, certain beliefs that are not quote unquote your own. Right? we all lump this together as I. We don't question where our thoughts, or even sometimes our desires come from. That's why I'm a very big critic of this whole you create your own reality, manifest your desires. You know, I've been there to each their own fine and good. But where do your desires come from?
Lian (27:05)
Mmm.
Bernhard Guenther (27:16)
Are they truly yours? lot of people have noticed they try to quote unquote manifest desires that are not their own, meaning they're conditioned from society, culture, from their parents, or their trauma response, trying to fill a hole within out of their own insecurity, right? Or from an aggregor, from a thought form, from the collective. It's it's a trend that's not n doesn't reflect their true soul being. So that's already differentiation needs to happen. So and if you really study the deeper esoterical cult traditions from the East and West,
Lian (27:16)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (27:44)
Christian esoteric Christianity, Sufism, ancient yogic teachings, Steiner, even shamanism, you see you know that there are other forces affecting you, right? The the idea that we are just have this enclosed mind and producer of all our thoughts is the biggest illusion. You know, even the great occultist Dion Fortune in her classic psychic self-defense written over 100 years ago.
Talked about how the mind is pores, how they're constantly affected by these other forces and they tag, you know, on a malevolent level. they need entry points to come in, right? So they're malevolent spirits, dark spirits, aromatic, azuric beings and entities that affect you, that wanna derail you from your path, that wanna feed off your life force, that feed off your projections, the so-called luge, so to speak, on on certain frequencies, right? They tempt you. This is a very that's the most common way these forces interfere is what from the Steiner perspective called a Luciferic temptation. What does it mean? They install the belief, you're already awake, you don't need to do inner work, you're special, I give you special knowledge. You know, that's the whole what I call the new age astral circus for all kinds of questionable channel material. Even within shamanism, people can fall for that when they fall for the temptation of power, right?
Lian (28:55)
You my goodness. Yeah.
Bernhard Guenther (29:09)
Or sex or, you know, all of these, right?
So that's kind of like how these forces most often interfere. It's not like these negative entities, it's not like a like the movie exorcist, like this demonic entity kind of thing. It's more subtle, right? It's more in the way that appeal to your ego, to your weaknesses, to your blind spots, or to your entry points. They make almost a pack with your inner fragmented inner child, right? And all of that. So that's why from a esoteric or cult perspective, these forces were actually seen as teachers.
Lian (29:26)
Mmm.
Bernhard Guenther (29:39)
They were seen like evil has a teaching function itself. They what do they teach? They show you where your work needs to be done because these forces cannot affect you where there is no entry point. What is an entry point? Your suppressed shadow, your blind spot, your weaknesses, your ego weaknesses, your trauma, your inner child that you have suppressed, right? And then also to differentiate, because what I've also noticed as people got more into this entity topic over the years.
Lian (29:46)
Hmm.
Yes.
Hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (30:05)
People make assumption, all of a sudden they see entities everywhere. I'm attacked by an entity, I have 24 attachments. Like you have to be on a very high level of consciousness and really grounded self-awareness and self-knowledge to be able to differentiate what is what. Because I would have noticed over the years, even working with a of people, if they don't do their inner psychological work, they can easily mistake a very fragmented inner child part that can also be hostile and angry because of trauma has been neglected.
Mistake that for an entity. Right? So that's where the differentiation is important because a lot of damage has been done to special Christian air exorcism. And nowadays all kinds of questionable entity removal modalities, which I'm very critical of or cautious. I'm not throwing out the baby the bath water, but people don't understand they can easily try to exorcise or reject or remove a part.
Lian (30:36)
Very much so, yeah.
Mmm.
Bernhard Guenther (31:03)
That they mistake for an entity, but which needed to be integrated. Happens a lot, right? And then if you mistake a very wounded inner child part for an entity trying to remove it, you create more psychological fragmentation and damage. So, and for me, anyway, this whole entity removal business is useless. I'm not even engaging it because it's as long as the entry point is there, they come back tenfold. It's just symptom management, right? So
Lian (31:06)
Mmm.
Hmm. Hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (31:30)
There are certain ways you can even also reject it yourself, but the moment you work on a psycho-spiritual level to close the entry point, bring forth from your true self, these forces have nothing to come into. So that's really what it comes down to, right? So the psycho-spiritual work is, yeah, understanding your psychological psyche have that map, but also on the spiritual level, understanding how these forces operate. And not only on the on the dark evil level, but on the more subtle level.
Lian (31:41)
Hmm
Bernhard Guenther (31:56)
Deceptive. They can also appear as divine forces, as it's known, right? I'm very critical of people when they do on shamanic journeys. I had a vision of Jesus and whatnot. They can eat, they can appear as Jesus, they can appear as a palladium, they can appear as a certain form that appealed to your belief system because what they need, they understand the law of free will, they manipulate it against you, they need your consent to invite them in, right? So if you're not aware of what we're inviting in,
Lian (32:08)
Absolutely.
Bernhard Guenther (32:25)
We can easily be manipulated and fall into what's called in occultism a trap of agreement, making agreements with forces out of our own naivety or unconsciousness or just ignorance. So
Lian (32:38)
Yes, absolutely.
I've seen some quite horror stories in that direction. So I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment, not because I disagree with anything you've said, but I just think there's something that might sort of tease out that I think will take us an interesting direction, we shall see. And then I've got another question I want to ask you. what you're saying, put very simply, It could be summarized as the places that we need to do our own inner work are also the places that we are vulnerable to these external forces. So one could say, well, why even worry about there being external forces? Because as long as I do just focus on my inner work, I will then no longer be vulnerable. Do I even need to know anything about those external forces?
Bernhard Guenther (33:19)
Correct.
Yeah.
Lian (33:36)
because I could just focus on my own work and then I wouldn't be vulnerable. Yeah.
Bernhard Guenther (33:37)
That's a great question. Yeah, that's a great question. But I can tell you if you're sincere in the inner work and become more in line with your true self, you raise your level of consciousness, your being expanses. You will inevitably come into contact with beings and forces. Period. Right? What trio binakoma you come into contact at first with the intermediate zone. This is kind of the astronaut. Very deceptive, very, you know, alluring. A lot of new age people fall into that. That's also the whole UFO alien topic happens on that realm and people get deceived by all kinds of entities you know, spreading half truths and appearing as divine forces. So naturally, yes, on that from a purely logical level, absolutely I've done this. But I realised the more I do in the network, there were other forces coming in as expanding and interfering. So I had to
Out of necessity, I need to understand knowledge protects what is coming into my field. I need to understand these forces, right? So similar again, when we do the inner work on a psychological level, right? we need to understand the map, but the more we expand our level of consciousness when we do the inner work, we will inevitably come into contact with these other forces. So it's it's it it's inevitable.
Right. So and i the thing is also what's known in the ignorance is not a defense. So not knowing about it, the whole I if I don't give any attention, it won't come in. No, no, this only works in their favor. So naturally, in the evolution of consciousness, especially now, that's why this topic's becoming more popular, what I feel we're experiencing now during this time of transition is a thinning of the veil. What the esoteric traditions have come the
Lian (34:57)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (35:23)
Unveiling of the heaven of the gods. So we naturally come into contact with spiritual beings, spiritual forces. We have been in contact thousands of years ago. Let's not forget we are in this big, you know, evolution of consciousness comes in cycles. We believe we are on the pickable of evolution. No, if you go against the the great year, the yuga cycle, 26,000 years. I recently interviewed a great guy, Bibu Mush Mesdivra, wrote a book, The Yuga Shift, profound work, really like I think.
Lian (35:32)
Hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (35:53)
nailing down the true year, the end of the Kali Yuga and the beginning of a news cycle happening right now. But let's say 12,000 years ago, and we were still in the golden age, right before the fall of Atlantis, we were more naturally in tune with spiritual forces, right? So now as we're going upward, we're in this dark age of materialism, this dark age where people are just identified with their bodies and disconnected from the spiritual world. But over the next hundred and a thousand of years of our next cycle and incarnation incarnations, we come more in contact with spiritual forces automatically. So it's very important to understand them and discern them, right? Even Rudolf Steiner talked about this very big as well, that we need to make more conscious contact with the spiritual forces. The issue in this dark age right now is what he called having a spiritual vacuum. We don't have a spiritual orientation. We don't make
Lian (36:45)
Mm.
Bernhard Guenther (36:46)
contact with spiritual forces, even the positive way. We are disconnected from our guardian angel and even the positive beings, which we also, the only answer if we call them, right? Is they respect free will, but we need to differentiate what and what. So it's natural in the evolution of consciousness, beyond the inner work, that we will open ourselves to other forces and then understand that I am just a vessel. The ultimate aim or goal is become a conscious transducer for divine will. It's not about quote unquote you anymore.
Lian (36:56)
Hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (37:14)
Right, Shriobinda said something very very profound. This inner work, it's not about your personal stuff anymore. When you're in sincere inner work, you really like sense the forces of the world, everything that's affecting us, because all is one, everything is interdependent, nothing can exist by itself. So naturally, the the we it's inevitable, so to speak. It's like it's becoming mature, like it's a good way to we need to become adults and mature in our spiritual evolution and not like kids anymore and take responsibility.
Lian (37:29)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Bernhard Guenther (37:44)
For all these different realities that are affecting us, not responsibility, but a certain awareness, like in a school. So we can know, this is what I want to align with, this is what you know, and this is what is not part of my nature. This differentiation and discernment is very key nowadays.
Lian (38:00)
Yes, thank you. I'm glad I'll see that question. I hoped you would take us into places that were helpful and I think you very much illuminated that well. So you've talked a little bit about the cosmology of these forces. I would love for you to say a little bit about how you see they, you mentioned say, for example, Hollywood.
Do you see there's a kind of like an organization that's kind of behind those forces, is a man, a particular manifestation of those forces? Would you about to say a bit about that? So in a way that kind of maps onto what people can see is happening out in the world. Does that make sense?
Bernhard Guenther (38:51)
do you mean like an organization what in what type? Like of how these forces organize themselves or?
Lian (38:57)
Yeah, so I guess it was sort of two parts of the question is like, is there a form of like hierarchy and organisation that you see at, like on a spiritual level? And then how then does that play into what we can pick up with our senses that's happening materially out in the world?
Bernhard Guenther (39:19)
Yeah. So there's definitely a hierarchy. There's a plane of creation, you know. So it depends how cosmology framework you use. I'm big into Stein, especially Shrio Bindu's integral yoga. I consider him the last enlightened avatar who really prova provided tremendous revelation teaching. And his whole teaching and and inner experience is about not escaping the world. Like the old traditions, we need to get out of samsara, out of the rebirth, we are you know. He is about no, we need to spiritualise life, body, and earth.
Lian (39:36)
really?
Mm.
Mm.
Bernhard Guenther (39:48)
bring the divine down, spiritualise it all. And that Rudolf Steiners as spiritual science is something similar. So Sri Aurobindo definitely through his own inexperience mapped out the different levels, planes of creation, right? From the over the one, the over mind, the different mental planes, the astral realm, this is the receptive, physical, and then you go down into the subconscious in each plane has certain forces, right? On the higher planes, The negative forces don't exist. They're kind of evil, like the negative forces manifest on the lower planes, right? Through the planes of creation and and and differentiation. And that's affecting us. And the battle, so to speak, is mostly on what you call the vital plane, the astral plane that's affecting us, most of us, right? That's a battle between divine forces and undivine forces, right? And you see this even as as simple as the the classical Native American tale of the, you know, the white wolf and the black wolf or like the devil and the angel on your on your shoulders and whatnot kind of like manifested. But the realm you tune into depends on what I call your frequency resonance vibration, your level of consciousness and also, you know, where you resonate, right? So but that already implies, if I raise my frequency, my level of consciousness, I into higher realms. But that's kind of the
Lian (40:45)
Mm-hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (41:08)
If it would be that simple, that's the new age way of just thinking positive thoughts and not thinking negative. That's not how it works, right? You need to actually face a lot of your darkness in order to raise your frequency. It's very paradoxical. but these other realms, when you say Hollywood, you know, again, we need to I lived in Los Angeles. It's not that black and white, right? I'll I'm I don't like the idea.
Lian (41:11)
Hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (41:29)
lot of conspiracy people, especially nowadays, have become lacking nuance. They fall into actually what's called psychological splitting, very oversimplified. This is all good, this is all bad and evil, right? So when you mention Hollywood, Hollywood is not bad and evil. I know
Lian (41:38)
Mmm.
Bernhard Guenther (41:43)
worked there in Holly I've been there in Hollywood. I've worked
Lian (41:43)
Just to say only mentioned Hollywood because you
Bernhard Guenther (41:45)
Yeah, okay, I did okay, sorry. I'm just saying in general, but I had the same or same with government. It's not it's not that it's not that it's not a you know I'm trying this more nuanced. It's more like
Lian (41:45)
You mentioned Hollywood first. Yeah. I'm teasing. You're quite right.
Yes. Yeah.
Bernhard Guenther (41:57)
What you align yourself with, right? And there's definitely certain people absolutely engage in occult rituals. Satanism is absolutely real. They make conscious connections of hostile forces to gain more power, to literally have the Faustian pact with the devil to sell the soul, right? But that doesn't mean all of them, right? So and there's a price to pay, it's all it's more understanding. Some people, we all transducers of these higher forces, right? Some make more conscious contact. Most of us, most people are.
Lian (42:09)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Bernhard Guenther (42:26)
unconsciously puppets even of negative forces as well, even regular people, right? but we are also transducers of higher, let's not forget, benevolent positive forces. Even people in Hollywood and music, they become like channels for like, you know, the the great work arts, great music of these age or past age, or even great films, were also inspired by higher divine beings, inspiring, you know, certain
Lian (42:52)
Mmm.
Bernhard Guenther (42:55)
artists and so forth. So it's an intermix. We're all kind of like a mixture of all of that, right? So the keys are the differentiation. And and if you cannot, if you're not engaged in this work consciously, you're not be able to differentiate. You more like live under the illusion of free will. This is another thing. To gain free will, we need to understand what is influencing us and what we give consent to, right? And it starts as basic as understanding our
Lian (43:18)
Mm-hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (43:21)
Our cultural social conditioning, right? On where you lived, the values you have taken on just from your family where you live, and all of this, all of this is conditioning, right? It does not represent your true self. And then it goes up in the other realms. But yeah, there are different levels. you know, and my program I go through this whole different levels of the planes of creation, show how these forces affect us, both the hostile forces, right? There's certain signs.
When they operate from certain levels from the overmind, the astronom or more from the physical, subtle physical planes. And same with the divine forces, how they afford affect us, how they support us, right? And how divine guidance actually manifests as well, which is most often not the way people think it is, because divine forces, by definition, have a higher awareness and you have their aligned with divine will, they're not necessarily gonna bail you out or protect you from everything because they understand your karmic lessons.
Oftentimes better than you do yourself, and understand you need to develop the free will and learn the lesson yourself, but they can assist on the way for sure. Right. Similarly, you have children, right? You're the you're a mother. Yeah, like a child. You not do everything sometimes the child has to learn. And even if it hurts itself, right? Okay, now you know this when you do this, that hurts you. So don't do this again. So that applies to the to the to the higher realm as well, right?
Lian (44:20)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Hmm.
Yeah. So unbelievably, we're kind of coming up on time and I feel like we've kind of just begun the conversation almost. So I think we may need to come back and do a part two actually, because there's a number of other places I would like to take this conversation.
Bernhard Guenther (44:59)
It's a big topic.
Lian (45:06)
Okay, I suppose what might be helpful, we've at least touched on kind of what we're all immersed in dealing with, swimming with in today's world.
appreciate this is a much bigger topic and in fact the very thing you're doing your course on. But if someone's listening to this and they're like, whoa, okay, you've just introduced me to this whole thing that I now understand and want to do something about. Could you just give some, I guess, from your lens, I guess, or spiritual hygiene 101, the very basic level is useful for people to know so that they are less vulnerable to these things and are kind of aligning themselves more to the light. Is there a way you could kind of, again, appreciate it would take much longer than we've got, but even just some kind of, this would be helpful to know as we close this conversation.
Bernhard Guenther (46:13)
That's a good question. And I'm not a big fan. I think this very limit of just visualising a light and like a protection and this and that. That's kinda like again, just symptom management. Two things I like to say, especially nowadays in spiritual spiritual hygiene, with this information overload, AI, and we have so much access to information, it's overwhelming. Be more mindful what you expose yourself to, right?
Lian (46:35)
Hmm.
Bernhard Guenther (46:35)
Not in terms of like the new age and like I don't want to look at evils or but also notice what information when you scroll on social media short term, you know, how it affects you, how what it kinda implants in you. You know what mean? So there's number one, be more, you know, dis you know, discerning in terms of not only information, but what is your orientation in life, right? What do you really you know, because it's very important I feel, for example, have a good morning routine, you know? As simple as that.
Get up in the first thing in the I get up in the morning, I go take out my dog in the sun, you know, walk, come back, do a meditation, and then I first read some spiritual literature. I don't even look at the internet or whatever for the first ⁓ two, one, two, three hours. And then you have children, yeah, you need to adjust. But like kind of like make time more for like spiritual study and and sincerity in the inner work, right? And that doesn't happen by just scrolling and and exposing yourself to short form content all the time, right? Number one,
Lian (47:26)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Bernhard Guenther (47:35)
Number two, I would say people sometimes with the discernment want to figure out too fast. what is what? What is not mine? What is an entity? What could be this? Before asking that question, learn to observe yourself. This is the most important part without identifying. Just learn. This is the foundation of inner work. Gurdjieff talked about even about this. Before trying to do anything, establish the witness within observe your thoughts, emotions without reacting on them.
Right without identifying, we are so mechanically identify every thought, identify every impulse, desire, and just become very reactive. Learn to create some distance from that, right? And observe, even without analyzing. Then you will see some the witness appears, right? And then you're more like in a healthy way detached from what's happening. And then you can that lays a foundation for differentiation, for more understanding.
Lian (48:07)
Mmm.
Bernhard Guenther (48:30)
And then be more able to recognise actually, hey, what is nine mine and what is not mine. But learn the art of of self-observation without identification or reacting right away and questioning sometimes, hey, where does this belief come from? Where does it remind me of? Right. A lot of the stuff we have reminds you of childhood. It's like a ongoing pattern. And as you know, from the inner work, we project our past into the present. Very often has nothing to do with the person in front of us or the current situation, right?
Lian (48:42)
Mmm.
Bernhard Guenther (48:59)
But we won't know this unless we learn the art of observation.
Lian (49:03)
Yes, beautiful. Thank you so much and thank you for managing to make that so succinct. Wonderful. Well, again, I think there's so much more that we could speak about, but we need to close for the moment. Where can listeners find out more about you and the wonderful work you do, including, I believe you have something coming up at the time of recording this on the 25th of June, you've got something coming up very soon that's on this very topic. So where can they find out?
Bernhard Guenther (49:08)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lian (49:33)
about that.
Bernhard Guenther (49:34)
So what thank you so much. What I have coming up is really the culmination of my work for almost thirty years now. I've created a ten week live program calling Mastering Spiritual Warfare. Unveiling the unseen forces and the path towards embodied sovereignty, where I go deeper in these topics and really more on the psycho spiritual, foundational level, and really providing a lot of practical tools and practices, not only an an intellectual understanding, how to navigate this, how to do this work.
Right, for the times to end right now. People can find out more about this at the website mastering spiritual warfare dot com. That's the new round starts July fifteenth until September twentieth. But also my website, veilofreality.com, lots of lots of free content on there. Hundreds of articles I've written. I just released a new article about the necessity of psycho spiritual work in this time of transition. That's a great introduction, this topic as well.
My wife and I, we are hosts of the Cosmic Matrix podcast. We also have done this for six or seven years now. We have over hundred and seventy up episodes. We go very deep. We present a lot of these a lot of practical tools as well from psychospiritual work. People can check that out. Lots of videos, some free ebooks. So all of that is available on veil of reality.com.
Lian (50:55)
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much. yeah, I really hope this episode connects people to your work very much needed. So thank you so much.
Bernhard Guenther (51:08)
Thank you so much, Lian And yeah, let's let's do it again to dive a bit deeper, no?
Lian (51:11)
Yes,let's do that.
Lian (51:15)
What a fascinating episode. Here are three things that stayed with me from this conversation. These forces, as Bernhard describes them, don't announce themselves. They don't tend to work in that like dramatic possession that we see on horror films. They work most commonly through a subtle appeal to ego, blind spots, and the desire to feel special or already awake. And they can also masquerade as divine guidance in ways that are really difficult to detect.
The capacity to differentiate between what is yours and what has come from in from outside goes further than discernment alone and is what determines whether the entry points close or simply keep cycling through symptom management.
Expanding consciousness through inner work doesn't reduce contact with these forces, it increases it, which is precisely why having a map for what Bernhard calls inner differentiation matters more than most people realise when they set out on this path.
If this conversation has stirred something within you that you can't quite answer alone, something that keeps returning. That's exactly what our Unio guidance circle is for. Twice each month, Jonathan and I meet with UNIO members to sit with whatever is alive for them, not to give advice, but to meet you exactly where you are. People tell us they feel really seen and so grateful to be part of something really soulful, to be with kins on this path. And so if you're ready for that kind of company, come find us at wildsovereignsoul.com/unio And again, we've made it tears so that money is never what stands in the way between you and Walking This Path.
All the show notes and the links are at wildsovereignsoul.com/podcast/556 And if you don't want to miss out on next week's show, follow or subscribe wherever you're listening or watching, including YouTube. Until then, I'm sending you all my love as you walk your Wild Sovereign Soul path.